![[Large crowd gathered in unidentified city area]](/IIIF/000650000/000643495/vtls000643495_001.jp2/full/800,/0/default.jpg)
[Large crowd gathered in unidentified city area]
Photo by J.F. Smart.
[graphic] /
| Main Creator: | |
|---|---|
| In collection: | Irish Political Figures Photographic Collection |
| Format: | Photo |
| Language: | English |
| Published / Created: |
[undated].
|
| Subjects: | |
| Notes: | Stamp on verso "J.F. Smart / Press Photographer / 22 Hendrick St., Dublin". In envelope with NPA POLF193 and NPA POLF194 inscribed with "? Terence McSwiney fuenral" and "Dev Speech Graveside of ?" on cover. Includes stamp on interior with manuscript note "MS Autograph / Name Grattan Henry / to David La touche Date 6 Aug 1778". Additional information about this photograph is available on the National Library of Ireland's Flickr Commons photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/49322666597/ Physical description: 1 photographic print : in mylar. b&w ; 24.8 x 19.7 cm ; more |
| Arrangement: | Item |
It‘s the start of a new week. Hopefully the catnip of “unidentified” will ease the pain for those among you who have finally finished up your Xmas and New Year holliers.
As usual, we'd like to know the Who, the Why, the Where, and the When – and anything else you care to contribute...
Photographer: J. F. Smart
Collection: Irish Political Figures Photographic Collection
Date: We don't know. 1920s??
NLI Ref: NPA POLF192
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Tags:
J. F. Smart, Irish Political Figures Photographic Collection, National Library of Ireland, Grand Parade, Cork, Munster, Ireland, Location Identified
Comments
abandoned railways
Resemblance of Grand Parade, Cork. Many of the building have gone, to be sure.
Posted: 06.01.2020
sharon.corbet
I think it’s Grand Parade in Cork. The buildings seem to match with those about halfway on the left here, including the plumbing sign.
Posted: 06.01.2020
sharon.corbet
There is also a note in the catalogue: "In envelope with NPA POLF193 and NPA POLF194 inscribed with "? Terence McSwiney fuenral" and "Dev Speech Graveside of ?" on cover. Includes stamp on interior with manuscript note "MS Autograph / Name Grattan Henry / to David La touche Date 6 Aug 1778"."
So it may be Terence McSwiney's funeral.
Posted: 06.01.2020
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Just sticking in my two cents here, [https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet]. Thousands lined the procession route in Cork, but I don't think that this size or type of crowd gathering was allowed for Terence MacSwiney's funeral itself...
Posted: 06.01.2020
suckindeesel
Grand Parade Google Earth Link earth.app.goo.gl/LargRY #googleearth
Note that distinctive building, second from left, with the 3 dormers
Posted: 06.01.2020
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
I wonder if this was the occasion, except there are no flags on the podium - [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6832672204/]
Posted: 06.01.2020
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04] Well spotted. Grand Parade it is, thanks!
Posted: 06.01.2020
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Probably not, 'cos of that tree near the podium which would show in the Michael Collins photo.
[Ed. talking to myself here - the first sign of madness]
Posted: 06.01.2020
suckindeesel
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] It's the same location, anyway.
See Google Earth Link earth.app.goo.gl/sdWPtV
The current Keane, Mahoney Smith building is same as the one with "Society" in name across the street, directly opposite the podium.
Posted: 06.01.2020
domenico milella
Bella foto e bell''Album -complimenti.
Posted: 06.01.2020
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04] So, if the podiums are in the same place, this photo must be before 13/3/1922, when the tree was gone.
What happened in Cork before 1922 to draw such a huge attentive crowd?
Posted: 06.01.2020
Niall McAuley
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] POLF194 is Dev making a speech to a crowd outside Sligo Town Hall. A sign in the backround says [somewhere] welcomes the President. I thought this must make it much later, but I learned Dev was titled President of the Dáil from April 1919, and President of the Republic from 1921.
That photo is certainly not MacSwiney's funeral.
Posted: 06.01.2020
sharon.corbet
It may be related to this photo of Dev in Cork:
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/37513777630/]
Posted: 06.01.2020
Niall McAuley
POLF192 is Dev again, he is at a graveside, a soldier is blowing a bugle and I see bagpipes at left. It doesn't look much like the Republican Plot at St. Finbarr's (google photosphere 2017) where MacSwiney is buried, I see a large tree trunk behind and a lot of leaves on the ground, and an old low bollard and railing at their feet, but maybe it looked different then.
Posted: 06.01.2020
sharon.corbet
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Dev was also President of Sinn Féin from 1917.
Posted: 06.01.2020
Niall McAuley
Dev did not give the graveside oration at MacSwiney's funeral, Arthur Griffith did, so if POLF192 is Dev giving a speech (and being beside the bugler, it looks possible) it is some other funeral.
Posted: 06.01.2020
John A. Coffey
P.Curtis, Master Painter, 59 Grand Parade (Census 1911)
Posted: 06.01.2020
sharon.corbet
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/65379774@N02] With Richard Hennessy, master plumber 2 doors down at 61.
Posted: 06.01.2020
suckindeesel
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] I'll stick with Grand Parade as location. The "tree" is probably either a lamp standard or a support for the tram overhead lines. Can anybody check the occupants of #35 Grand Parade, the current auctioneers, to see if it includes "society" or something similar in its name?
Posted: 06.01.2020
suckindeesel
Possibly not MacSwiney's funeral, as although large crowds attended in both London and Cork, they lined the streets to view his cortage. See m.youtube.com/watch?v=qU16rhRHP7M for video of occasion which looks nothing like the photo.
This looks more like a political meeting.
Posted: 06.01.2020
suckindeesel
#35 was The Religious Tract and Book Society, www.corkpastandpresent.ie/places/streetandtradedirectorie... , so definitely the Parade.
Posted: 06.01.2020
suckindeesel
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] It's could be Dev's 1917 visit to Cork, as Sinn Fein president, where he addressed a large crowd in the Parade www.corkindependent.com/news/topics/articles/2017/12/13/4...
The tricolour draped in front and the two behind him, match catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000641459
Was this photo positively identified as Cork?
Posted: 06.01.2020
sharon.corbet
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04] Yes, according to the discussion of the photo that I linked to above.
Posted: 06.01.2020
suckindeesel
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] Yes, should have read its description more carefully. Also, building on left matches the street view, "Matt Fallons" Google Earth Link
earth.app.goo.gl/fNgkXH
#googleearth
Posted: 06.01.2020
suckindeesel
Seems to have been a popular spot to hold political rallies, being the widest spot on Cork's widest street.
Anybody know of any other visits by Dev in that era that could fit the bill?
If not, then must be the 1917 one.
Posted: 06.01.2020
O Mac
The fellow wearing the hat is my great grandfather.
Posted: 06.01.2020
suckindeesel
I think I see Hitler in the crowd
Posted: 06.01.2020
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/91549360@N03] Please ask your great grandfather who, why, and when. Where is sorted!
Posted: 06.01.2020
O Mac
Could it be..... 24hr strike 23rd April 1918... .
"In Cork, the twenty-four hours were observed with a rigid faithfulness to a united protest against the imposition of conscription in Ireland.
The prominent feature of the day was a monster meeting of trade unionists general workers and labour en masse on the Grand Parade. It was immense in its proportions........
Estimates in the press of the total number that attended the big meeting on the Grand Parade vary between twenty and thirty thousand."
www.corkindependent.com/weekly/ourcityourtown/articles/20...
Posted: 06.01.2020
suckindeesel
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Dev visited Sligo on 16 June 1923, www.sligoarts.ie/media/CIVILWAR.pdf
Posted: 07.01.2020
suckindeesel
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/91549360@N03] Can't see any mention of Dev attending this particular rally, he was at one in the Mansion House a few days earlier. However, it must have been a busy time for mass meetings, hard to keep track of them all.
I think it has to be the same occasion as catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000641459 The flags on the podium are identical and it even looks like the "long fellow" in the distance.
I'll stick with December 1917.
Posted: 07.01.2020
myheadismyonlyhouse
Definitely Grand Parade Cork, podium is outside what is now Irwins Solicitors, the building is more or less unchanged. Everything to the right of it is gone now, replaced by the City Library and Hillbillys chipper on the corner. That building was the Sinn Fein office until the foundation of FF in 26, and then it was the FF office for a few years afterwards. The building directly to the left was Sealys Loan Office until 1915, then was taken over by Manager Frank Dalton. Dev gave a speech on the Grand Parade on 26th September 1927, it would make sense to have it in front of the then office. The crowd 'dress' is more late 1920's than 1917. My two scents, lol.
Posted: 01.02.2022
