No. 2 Dredger from Dublin at work in Courtown Harbour, Co. Wexford

[graphic]
Bibliographic Details
Main Creator: French, Robert, 1841-1917 photographer
Contributors: Lawrence, William, 1840-1932
In collection: The Lawrence Photograph Collection
Format: Photo
Published / Created: [Between circa 1906-1914].
Subjects:
Notes:Original date range we had for this photograph was "between circa 1865-1914". Research by our Flickr Commons users established a date of between circa 1906-1914.

Additional information about this photograph is available on the National Library of Ireland's Flickr Commons photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/10666533056/

Robert French was the chief photographer responsible for photographing three quarters of the Lawrence Collection. For more information, see the Dictionary of Irish Biography: http://dib.cambridge.org/viewReadPage.do?articleId=a3369

Physical description: 1 negative : glass ; 19 x 13 cm

Geographic Coverage: Courtown, County Wexford, Province of Leinster, Ireland.

Caption on glassplate reads: Courtown Harbour. Co. Wexford. 8581. W. L.

more
... a-dredging in Courtown Harbour, Co. Wexford.
Photographer: Almost certainly Robert French of Lawrence Photographic Studios, Dublin
Date: Between circa 1906 and 1914
NLI Ref.: L_CAB_08581

Comments

O Mac
Streetview
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Imagine a career dredging No.2's !!
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@beachcomberaustralia And a scatological Limerick by beachcomber will land in 3 - 2 - 1... :D
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
@nlireland Ha! I never realized that expression has its origins in rhyming slang. Today is not wasted!
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
The Number Two Limericks There once was a man at low tide Who fell off a dredger and died. The next day his brother Fell off another - They lay interred side-by-side. Folk flocked to the dockside to view The dredger at work, Number Two. It would be a pleasure To find sunken treasure But shyte when it's only a shoe!

Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
Before 1904, I think. I can't see this water hydrant.
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
DannyM8
@beachcomberaustralia @beachcomberaustralia your best yet
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@gnmcauley I wouldn't doubt you, Niall. I had Circa 1905. Nudging back slightly to Circa 1900. Where should it be in the photograph?
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@beachcomberaustralia Typo KLAXON! "Whe" fell off a dredger... Edit in aisle 3 please!
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
@nlireland Wheeps! Fixing ... [reminds me of an old Ronnie Barker sketch/skotch - youtu.be/_eTsns2DfDM]
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
The harbour seems to be in need of constant dredging, or a sand bar blocks it.
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
Courtown Harbour. HC Deb 09 May 1904 vol 134 c763 763 § SIR THOMAS ESMONDE (Wexford, N.) I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he will arrange with the Board of Works for the sending of their dredger as speedily as possible to dredge the entrance of Courtown Harbour, county Wexford. § MR. WYNDHAM There is not sufficient depth of water at Courtown Harbour to enable the suction dredger to be worked there. The other dredger is not at present available, as it will be required at Howth and Dunmore during the whole of the season.
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
Courtown Harbour. HC Deb 08 November 1906 vol 164 cc759-60 759 § SIR THOMAS ESMONDE I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he is aware that the fishermen at Courtown, county Wexford, have been unable to get to sea for some time past owing to the silting up of the harbour; if the dredger, promised on 22nd October last 760 by the Department of Agriculture, has been sent to Courtown; and whether, in view of the fact that for years past the fishermen at Courtown, and at other places on the south-east coast of Ireland, have been continually making representations to successive Governments with a view to the improvement of their harbours, he will seriously consider the question of giving them the same opportunities of earning their living as are given to fishermen in Scotland and in other parts of Ireland. MR. BRYCE The Department of Agriculture are aware that the larger boats at Courtown have recently been prevented from leaving the harbour, owing to the condition of the bar. A similar state of affairs existed at the end of the year 1904. The Department, in co-operation with the county council, then cleared the entrance by the use of a steam crane and grab working from the pier. On learning, on 22nd October, that the entrance to the harbour had again become choked, the Department took immediate steps to have the crane moved from Arklow to Courtown; and it is now being erected there. The greater number of harbours on the east coast are purely artificial, and are liable to become choked by accumulations of sand. The Department are now in possession of a sand pump dredger, which is available for use in harbours suitable to her capacities, and arrangements could be made for placing her at the disposal of such harbour authorities as are prepared to cooperate in providing for her expense.
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
SNAP @gnmcauley!! From the Freeman's Journal of Tuesday, 10 May 1904: [Questions asked in the House of Commons on Monday 9 May]
BOARD OF WORKS DREDGER In answer to Sir T. Esmonde, the Chief Secretary said there was not sufficient depth of water at Courtown Harbour to enable the suction dredger to be worked there. The other dredger of the Board of Works was not at present available, as it would be required at Howth and Dunmore during the whole of the season.

Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
This site has a useful history of Courtown Harbour and the dredging problems - from about half way down the page - " In July 1904 the Harbour was handed over to the Wexford County Council. " - www.courtownharbour.com/things-to-do/historic-stuff/histo...
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
From further searching in newspapers, it looks as if the Dredging of Courtown Harbour issue ran and ran over a number of years between 1904 and 1913. Bearing in mind @gnmcauley's water pump too, anyone inspired to guesstimate a date?
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
The responses above seem to suggest that Courtown was not getting a dredger in 1904, which suggests that the water hydrant was present for this photo but is not visible, while a shore based steam crane was used in 1904 and 1906. So I'd guess this is later than 1906...
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@gnmcauley 1906-1914 is very safe, I think, thank you.
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
O Mac
The large conspicuous two story building behind the gated arch is not marked on the 25"OSI which would suggest photograph post 1910 !!
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
OS 25" was surveyed in 1904.
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
O Mac
@gnmcauley I sit corrected..... though I was informed by @77199267@N03 in this discussion that the survey was done in 1910 and published 1913??? Just checked the OSI website and they date the 25 inch 1897-1913. I assume these are survey dates.
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
XPAT-Polska
I love this having just got back from Wexford.
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
Hi Owen, the different sheets have different survey dates, you can extract the info from the Search>Historic tab.
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
O Mac
Thanks Niall, That's brilliant. 1/6/1904.......surveyed in a day. way to go. :)
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Some red herrings from Trove - " ... and not least of these is the unexpected fact, that at Courtown Harbour, south of Dublin, the solar tide is actually greater than the lunar tide ! "This is," says Mr. Airy, "the only place on earth in which such a result has been distinctly obtained." " From 'Thoughts Upon Tides' (originally United Service Magazine, October 1845?) Sydney Morning Herald, 13/3/1846, near top of column 4 - trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12885843 And 'Mitchell's Patent Screw-Piles' used to build a pier at Courtown Harbour in 1847, which was swept away in a January storm in 1867 - South Australian Register, 27/2/1855 - trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/49310864
Posted: 04.11.2013  
 
Robinson_Luzo
@nlireland The Board had previous experience renting out said dredger and getting royally reamed for it being incapable of doing its work. In April/ May 1897 the Wicklow Harbour commissioners borrowed such a dredger from the Board of Works (at 35 pounds a week!) but found it did virtually nothing. The request to the Board of Works contained some strong language, some of the more polite of which stated it was "a waste of public money....she is practically useless". I'm curious about the whole dredging problem at Courtown. In 1897 at least the Wexford Harbour board had a dredger available to work (it was leased to Wicklow). Furthermore the Wicklow Harbour commissioners, who eventually purchased a dredger of the type suited to Courtown, were constantly trying to rent it out from 1901-1912, and attempting to sell it from 1907, yet there are no records of enquiries from Courtown as far as I'm aware.
Posted: 06.11.2013  
 
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
@99002941@N08 According to the local history (see link above) the harbour had its own dredger from 1859 -
" ... The sand bar at the entrance was a constant problem. Various methods for dealing with it were devised. In 1859 a steam dredge was under consideration. In the same year a lighter was purchased. The sluice gates in the lock were originally designed to keep the entrance clear. These were enlarged in 1865 by James Pierce of Folly Mills Iron Works, Wexford. In 1861 a scheme to make a cut in the south pier was considered in order to clear sand from the pier. This idea was abandoned because a huge bank of gravel was thrown up against it by a storm the following year. Further loans, for repairs, were obtained from 1872 to 1904 totaling about £6,000. These loans were obtained by Lord Courtown mainly on the security of his lands. Altogether the harbour cost over £25,000 to build. During the years up to 1900 the income from the harbour just covered the running expenses. These included amongst other things the harbour masters' salary, the wages of the night watchman, the captain and crew of the dredger. Typical income and expenditure was as follows: - 1862 - Dues/storage - £238. Expenses £238. With this kind of balance sheet loans could not be paid off. ... " www.courtownharbour.com/things-to-do/historic-stuff/histo...

Posted: 06.11.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@99002941@N08 £35 a week! I'm not surprised that there was a resort to "some strong language".
Posted: 07.11.2013  
 
Robinson_Luzo
@nlireland An estimate on the Wicklow Harbour Board's part gave the cost of the work, if they could go to the Board of Works for a proper dredger, as a third of that
Posted: 08.11.2013