[Sandymount Castle on Sandymount Green, Dublin]
| Main Author: | Fergus O'Connor Collection |
|---|---|
| Contributors: | |
| In Collections: | |
| Format: | Photo |
| Published: |
[n.d.] |
| Subjects: | |
| Notes: |
Fergus O'Connor was a Dublin publisher, who published Sean O'Casey's early writings and produced nationalist postcards and related material. Following the Easter Rising he was imprisoned in Lewes prison.
Physical description:
1 glass plate negative ;
17 x 22 cm.
|
You'd all thwarted my previous attempts at providing a difficult challenge from our "unknown location" Fergus O'Connor Collection images, nonchalantly despatching some of them in as little as 30 minutes. Well not this one, Flickroonies! I had threatened to eat the original glass plate negative if this one was solved quickly, but as it took us 10 months, don't think I have to make good on that offer.
All we had on this one was "Large house, with a clock tower and crenellated rooftop, in an unknown location", and the clock told us it was taken around 11:45. Though the time didn't help much, the clock tower certainly did. Almost 10 months to the day from its original posting, zetetic2006 said:
"I recognised it immediately! It's Sandymount Castle on Sandymount Green in Dublin, the crenellated clock-tower is a giveaway. The rear of the castle backs onto the southern side of the Green where you can still see the clock tower, check out Google Maps. The view in this photo is no more, Castle Park was built in these grounds, sometime in the 50's or 60's I think."
Date: 1900-1920
NLI Ref.: OCO 381
Tags:
Clock Tower, Clock, 11:45, Flagpole, Crenellated, Stained Glass, Trees, Wrought Iron, Railings, Daisies, Grass, Fergus O'Connor, Fergus O'Connor Collection, Glass Negative, 1900s, 1910s, National Library of Ireland, Location Identified, Sandymount Castle, Sandymount, Dublin, Ireland, Leinster, Yeats, W B Yeats
Comments
eyelightfilms
Well judging by the state of the place, that clock could have said 11:45 for years.
Plastered by cowboys maybe?
Posted: 11.05.2012
Rienk Mebius
Did the clock run? :-))
Posted: 11.05.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
P.S. should have said, this collection "consists, for the most part, of topographical views of locations in Cork city and county. Also featured are images of townscapes in Dublin, Ballycastle and Lurgan and places of interest in counties Kerry and Wicklow."
Posted: 11.05.2012
swordscookie
You are not a nice person. Can I withdraw my proposal of marriage made subject to my wifes approval?
Posted: 11.05.2012
swordscookie
@nlireland Okay, the offer still stands with the same terms and conditions applying!
Posted: 11.05.2012
Niall McAuley
I've got nothing.
There is a good chance that this house was burnt in the 20s and is now just an overgrown pile of rubble...
Posted: 11.05.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@gnmcauley Now I'm starting to feel like a big Meanie! :(
Was convinced one of you would recognise the style of wrought iron railing, or would use crenellation on some architectural site and stun me by solving the puzzle before I'd even finished adding tags... Wouldn't be the first time I've been amazed on here.
Posted: 11.05.2012
La Belle Province
I had to look when I saw the title, to check whether Mwahaha is a place in Ireland. I'd have guessed Wales.
Posted: 11.05.2012
dreamer@desh
brilliant shot
Posted: 11.05.2012
MKSeery
I've checked Thom's, re-read Ulysses, and scoured the old OSi. But nothing. Too hard!
Looks like it has had a lot of additions to the original building.
Posted: 11.05.2012
swordscookie
@nlireland I'm thinking convent or school from that extension on the right. If the shot was taken in the 20's then it makes the search almost impossible given the number of big houses that perished during the troubles, the civil war and the subsequent divvying up of estates. The more I look at this the more the date looks wrong? The roof tiles, the windows and the finish are more reminiscent of late 40's mid 50's than 1900's to 20's as suggested. Are you posting a red herring by any chance to thwart your faithful followers????
Posted: 11.05.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@swordscookie Never! No seriously, all of the O'Connor glass plates were taken 1900-1920 (maybe a couple of months either side, but no later...
Posted: 11.05.2012
blackpoolbeach
It is definitely not No 4 Kildare Street, Dublin.
Posted: 11.05.2012
oaktree_brian_1976
thought it might be war damaged, but the brickwork is just falling away due to age.
Posted: 11.05.2012
billh35
Very much in the style of Bellingham Castle at Castlebellingham, Co. Louth.
buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=images&cou...
Posted: 11.05.2012
Cuddly Nutter
You seem to have drawn a blank this time :-(
Posted: 12.05.2012
mogey
Would tv3 show it one morning? I'm dying of curiosity!
Posted: 14.05.2012
swordscookie
@47290943@N03 This has all the hallmarks of a sadist, throw a grenade into the pot of stew and then beggar off fishing for a week. I hope you catch nothing only tractor tyres:-((((((
Posted: 14.05.2012
billh35
I am thinking on the lines of a college belonging to the sisters of murphy or some form of psuedo religious training academy set in its' own grounds somewhere where no one ever sees or goes!
The right hand building suggests class rooms or "cells" maybe? It'll turn out to be some sort of crack Jesuit special theological college from which the attendees are sworn to silence never to divulge its' location.
Sadly in a lot of places Google Earth's images just aren't good enough to assist! Tut tut Google!
Posted: 15.05.2012
blackpoolbeach
"I am not a number, I am a free man!"
Posted: 15.05.2012
billh35
Are there any other views of the same building? What photos are either side in the collection? These may give a clue to the area?
Posted: 18.05.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@38401430@N06 Good thinking! There are 381 photos in the Fergus O'Connor Collection, and this one is call number OCO 381. The ones before it in the numbering sequence are all Cork photos. However, one caveat is that numbering sequences, especially for older material, don't always necessarily follow a logical or chronological order...
Posted: 18.05.2012
billh35
What's after it? It seems odd if only one photo was taken at a locaton?
Posted: 18.05.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@38401430@N06 No that's what I mean about this one - it is the last, nothing after it. Maybe others were taken at this location, but if so, we don't have them...
Posted: 18.05.2012
billh35
www.millstreet.ie/blog/2010/09/15/drishane-castle
From this view Drishane Castle could be a possibility as it seems alike but sadly the Google earth map doesnt show the castle at all clearly!
Posted: 19.05.2012
blackpoolbeach
This is a brick house which has been rendered to make it look like stone.
For all the damage to the rendering, there is not one broken window.
I have looked all around Portmeirion in North Wales, but it is not there.
That's where "The Prisoner" was filmed with Patrick McGoohan.
Just thought I would add my sixpennyworth to the confusion.
Posted: 21.05.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@38401430@N06 And I've had a look at all of our Drishane photos, but no luck! You're excellent for not giving up. I've searched Cork in our photos for Convent / Abbey / Seminary / School / Monastery - again no luck...
Posted: 21.05.2012
billh35
How about Thomastown Castle, Co. Tipperary?
The problem with this photo is that it is a "back" view so may be a quite recognisable place but not from this angle?
Posted: 22.05.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@38401430@N06 I know! Could I have picked a harder picture? Lovely engraving of Thomastown Castle here, but even if ours is a back view, we'd be able to see the slim turrets, I think.
Posted: 22.05.2012
Bernard Healy
The windows to the right of the door seem to have a stained-glass cross design on the small upper panes. I'm wondering if that's the apse of a chapel that was built on at a later date.
I'm surprised that the clock tower hasn't led to a quick identification.
If you've failed searching under Convent / Abbey / Seminary / School / Monastery you might try the words College or Novitiate.
Posted: 22.05.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@bernardhealy Nope, checked College and Cork, and no novitiates anywhere in the country. But thanks for the good suggestion!
Posted: 22.05.2012
Niall McAuley
NUIG has a great database online of landed estates and Big Houses in Connacht and Munster.
There are upwards of 2000 photos in there, and this house is not identifiable as any of them.
Of course, many of the houses were demolished or burnt down in the 20th century, and have no associated picture, or just a photo of a field or wood with some rubble.
Posted: 23.05.2012
billh35
So what were the photos taken before this? Perhaps looking at where he had been prior may lead to where he then went, if that makes sense? At least it may narrow down the possibilities.
Posted: 23.05.2012
blackpoolbeach
This is when we should be using new technology such as Facial Recognition
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_recognition_system
Google Picasa soon sorts out all faces on your hard drive.
How about Clock-Face Recognition?
Posted: 23.05.2012
billh35
As the search goes on I have found this AWESOME website of photos of abandoned Irish places which publishes a book called "Abandoned Mansions of Ireland".
www.abandonedireland.com/
It's worth having a look flickroonies! (I have asked them if they can identify this place)
Posted: 23.05.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@38401430@N06 They were street scenes in Cork city so far as I recall. That's why I'm kinda thinking that it's somewhere in or around Cork.
Posted: 23.05.2012
swordscookie
I don't know why but when I first saw this I thought Mallow, I still have that feeling as though I saw it or was there once upon a time. I suspect I am wrong and it was flattened before I was born but I still have this feeling. Perhaps I saw it in a former life???
Posted: 24.05.2012
billh35
Perhaps you are thinking of Duckett's Grove in Carlow which looks almost right but the windows in this photo are different. It burned down in 1930.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ducketts_grove_prefire.jpg
This could be a contender - www.carlowcountymuseum.com/carlow-county/duckets-grove/in...
Posted: 24.05.2012
blackpoolbeach
This has the look of a Dracula film set, with Christopher Lee about to fly out of a window.
It isn't Ardmore Studios at Bray, Co Wicklow.
Perhaps going after the Architects who worked in Carlow will give an answer.
Posted: 24.05.2012
MKSeery
No result yet, but learning lots in the hunt! Stumbled across the building work of Daniel Robertson of Powerscourt Gardens fame; Rathwade, Co. Carlow came close, but I don't think so (Robertson's plan looks a bit different to house now). Checked also Peter Pearson's Between the Mountains and the Sea and perusing Mark Bence Jones - but no dice.
If anyone is interested in Daniel Robertson, this is a great article in Irish Arts Review. Very similar style...?
Posted: 11.06.2012
billh35
Very interesting article and could be on the right lines as they do look very similar. If not him, then maybe a copycat for style?
Posted: 13.06.2012
Niall McAuley
32 works listed in the DIA:
www.dia.ie/architects/view/4570/ROBERTSON-DANIEL#tab_works
Posted: 13.06.2012
MKSeery
I saw that list alright Niall and googled any that seemed a contender. This one is elusive! I think the thought that it is a school/religious building seems to be the most probable. I checked Buildings of Ireland for Cork and Wicklow too. Nada.
Posted: 15.06.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Still haven't given up on this one! If any of ye have a Boards.ie account, there's a thread on the go there about Wasted Heritage Buildings. Bit off-topic for that thread, but maybe someone there might recognise this building...
Posted: 17.07.2012
billh35
Just because I haven't posted anything....doesn't mean I've stopped searching!
Posted: 02.09.2012
billh35
Perhaps it has a Klingon cloaking device!
Posted: 03.09.2012
zetetic2006
I recognised it immediately! It's Sandymount Castle on Sandymount Green in Dublin, the crenellated clock-tower is a giveaway. The rear of the castle backs onto the southern side of the Green where you can still see the clock tower, check out Google Maps. The view in this photo is no more, Castle Park was built in these grounds, sometime in the 50's or 60's I think.
Posted: 05.09.2012
Niall McAuley
Wow! I think zetetic has got it! This is the Google Streetview from the back of that building, showing the the tower.
Here is an OS 25" map link, showing the original layout. On the map I see the front steps with bay windows either side, the wing to the right.
Yes! Look at this Bing bird's-eye view: definitely the same building!
Well done, zetetic !
Posted: 06.09.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
What can I say? Not very much because I'm speechless! Thank you @86692975@N04! Really fantastic - this one has been here since 5 November last: 10 months and you "recognised it immediately"! Well done you...
Have to admit I was struggling to believe until I looked at @gnmcauley's Bing Bird's Eye View, and then it all made sense...
Also have to announce my immediate resignation, as I live under a mile from this building and pass by Sandymount Green at least once a week! The shame of it...
Posted: 06.09.2012
zetetic2006
I spend too much of my youth lounging in Sandymount Green not to notice it! :)
Posted: 06.09.2012
mogey
@86692975@N04 well done, its been driving me crazy! Its a strange messy building, anyone know its history?
Posted: 06.09.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@86692975@N04 There are worse things you could have been doing with your youth! :)
Posted: 06.09.2012
billh35
I am thrilled it has been located but gutted I didn't find it especially given the number of buildings I have looked at since November!
Posted: 06.09.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@38401430@N06 Ah, but that research may stand to you on here. While the rest of us are scratching our heads over a mystery photo, you'll be able to swoop in and identify it with studied nonchalance... :)
Posted: 06.09.2012
billh35
You think so? Ha ha ha! I admire your confidence......
BTW I would be asking if zetetic 2006 recognised it "instantly", he obviously hasn't been looking on here since November last year.....tut tut tut........why hasn't he been looking?
We need a new challenge now then......
Posted: 06.09.2012
zetetic2006
@38401430@N06 First time on the NLI Flickr photo stream (I know, I've been wasting my life up to now). I often stood opposite the castle at the (then) no. 18 terminus, wondering about the building. I think some of the Yeats family lived here (Jack I think) for a while. There were always rumours of a secret tunnel from the castle to the church adjacent, which there always seems to be with these buildings!
Posted: 06.09.2012
billh35
@86692975@N04 Welcome to the stream....you may also wish to join Location Hunters!
Posted: 06.09.2012
Niall McAuley
WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS (1806-62) was a good horseman; became curate of Moira, Co. Down and then rector at Tullylish, nr. Portadown; d. Sandymount Castle, 1862;
Posted: 06.09.2012
Niall McAuley
A bust of Nobel Prize Winner W.B. Yeats, who was born at No. 5 Sandymount Avenue, is a feature of the Green.
There's a photo in the nli archive, it's not digitized though.
Posted: 06.09.2012
billh35
@gnmcauley Think you may have the wrong William Butler Yeats - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._B._Yeats is the one you want! He was born at Sandymount 13 June 1865.
Posted: 06.09.2012
Niall McAuley
@38401430@N06 Yes indeed, the WB Yeats who died in the castle was the famous one's grandfather.
Posted: 06.09.2012
Niall McAuley
You can see crenellations behind this shot of the bust:
Posted: 06.09.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Shameless self-promotion, but any of you interested in knowing more about the W.B. Yeats who was the "famous one" as @gnmcauley calls him, we've a pretty good exhibition on that very gentleman you can explore online...
Posted: 06.09.2012
billh35
The last resting place of "the famous one":
I once visited here with a colleague whilst planning tour itineraries and whilst getting some camera gear from the car we noted that it was raining in the car park but not in the graveyard itself. And when we left again, it was still raining in the car park only!
I once visited here with a colleague whilst planning tour itineraries and whilst getting some camera gear from the car we noted that it was raining in the car park but not in the graveyard itself. And when we left again, it was still raining in the car park only!Posted: 06.09.2012
Niall McAuley
@nlireland Ha ha! More shame! From that exhibition:
Robert Corbet Yeats is born 1870
Robert Corbet Yeats was born on 27 March 1870, the fourth child of Susan and John Butler Yeats.
Robert was later described as being red-haired and dark-eyed, a dear and lovable child. He was named after John Butler Yeats' brother, who had died at the age of fifteen in 1857, and his uncle Robert Corbet, of Sandymount Castle, where John Butler Yeats had stayed while he was studying law.
Posted: 06.09.2012
Niall McAuley
The exhibition includes a picture, supposedly of Sandymount castle, which looks nothing like this one, in the 1901 bit about The Speckled Bird.
It's in an Adobe flash 10 presentation, so I can't link it directly...
Edit: actually, some small details are very similar, so perhaps the house was rebuilt between the exhibition photo and this one.
Posted: 06.09.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@gnmcauley You, Sir, are no gentleman, with your "Ha ha! More shame!" :D
And I had a look at the Wiltshire photo of the bust in Sandymount Green, but it's taken from another angle and the Castle isn't behind it...
Posted: 06.09.2012
billh35
@gnmcauley The windows in Sandymount shown in the photo gallery do look different - six pane sash windows whereas in this photo they are mainly single pane sashes. Similarly there are infills which this photo doesn't seem to have.
Although having now had a chance to look at the bing aerial views it does appear to be the same building although today it has been heavily renovated by removal of the crenellations and part of the tower.
Posted: 06.09.2012
Niall McAuley
I count 4 versions of this house at various sources:
1) Sandymount House, 1837, as on the OS 6" map.
2) Sandymount Castle, the version in the exhibition flash, owned by the Corbets, which WB Yeats (the granda) died in (in 1862).
3) The school which we see in this Fergus O'Connor picture. This has with the extra institutional looking wing to the right, and a different tower. This was in place by 1901: "The Sandymount Academical Institute" according to the book Blood Kindred: The Politics of W. B. Yeats and his Death By W J McCormack.
4) The modern version, re-roofed and with far less crenellation going on, as in Bing today.
Posted: 06.09.2012
Niall McAuley
Or maybe just 3, the 6" map version was apparently a "castle" too:
SANDYMOUNT
From A Topographical Dictionary of Ireland, 1837
:
The principal seats are Lakelands, the residence of Mrs. Williamson, situated in grounds tastefully laid out and commanding fine sea and mountain views; Wilfield House, of N. Anderson, Esq.; Sandymount Castle, of R. Corbet, Esq.;
Posted: 06.09.2012
swordscookie
You know when you think about it A tried and failed, B tried and failed, C tried and failed etc. etc. etc. until along came Z(etetic) and he knew the answer all the time. Pity we didn't start the alphabet in reverse order:-) Mwahaha indeed! Congratulations everyone for persistence and to Zetetic for a hole in one (first time in the NLI stream)
Posted: 07.09.2012
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@11418107@N02 Thanks Penny! Really good of you to publicise, but did you have to further immortalise my own shameful part in the enterprise? :D
Posted: 07.09.2012
billh35
@swordscookie I don't think "failed" is appropriate since some of us were still actually looking in a wide variety of places. You should see the results that have been found in our Location Hunters group where we have even been identifying churches in Mexico!
If anyone wants to join and become a global Location Hunter then come and join at www.flickr.com/groups/locationhunters/
The mods there are all members of here as well.
Posted: 07.09.2012
billh35
@11418107@N02 Ah.....but this isn't the first time our activities have attracted media attention......even the BBC follow us here!
Click on the pic to follow the story!
Click on the pic to follow the story!Posted: 07.09.2012
pellethepoet
It'll always be Mwahaha Castle to me ... :)
Posted: 07.09.2012
billh35
@pellethepoet "Mwahaha Castle welcomes careful photographers"!! And in the tradition of all good coach drivers, you can make up your own history of the place to recount!
The really sad thing is that today, it looks so completely different and........ordinary!
Posted: 07.09.2012
ART NAHPRO
excellent outcome
Posted: 07.09.2012
DannyM8
Fantastic....wow ....Sandymount who would have believed that!!
Back in Dublin soon. See you then D
Posted: 07.09.2012
