[Fishermen, Downings pier, Co.Donegal]

[graphic]
Bibliographic Details
Contributors: Ireland. Congested Districts Board.
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In collection: The Congested Districts Board Photograph Collection
Format: Photo
Published / Created: [ca.1906-1914].
Subjects:
Notes:Additional information about this photograph is available on the National Library of Ireland's Flickr Commons photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/9603449203

Physical description: 1 photographic print ; 8 x 14 cm.

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We've had photographs of quite a few old sea dogs at this stage, but none quite so salty as this bearded chap sitting on the mooring bollard!
Date: Circa 1910 (but definitely between circa 1906 and 1914)
NLI Ref.: CDB51

Comments

DannyM8
Street view looking down the pier maps.google.ie/maps?q=Downings,+Donegal&hl=en&ll=... showing rope-holding structures - the same rope-holding structures I think
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
DannyM8
A bollard is a short vertical post. Originally it meant a post used on a ship or a quay, principally for mooring. The word now also describes a variety of structures to control or direct road traffic, such as posts arranged in a line to obstruct the passage of motor vehicles.[1][2] The American Heritage Dictionary describes this use of bollard as "chiefly British", although the term has crept into the jargon of some American universities where dense traffic necessitates the use of bollards for access control. In the lighting industry, the term is used to describe short, post-like light fixtures. Mooring Bollard
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
From www.rosguill.com/ourarea/history/ 1880 Downings pier built 1895 Memorial erected in Carrigart to the 4th Earl (the fair Earl) 1887-1914 Fishing boom in Herring – ended at start of First World War with lost markets in Germany and Russia 1910 Extension to Pier built Marked on the OSI 25" as Downies Pier
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
mikescottnz
Another great Irish life vintage photo' !
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@79549245@N06 Thanks for the Streetview, and "mooring bollard".
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@gnmcauley Is this just *the* pier, do you think? As opposed to the 1910 Extension?
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
 
John Spooner
What happens when you inadvisedly interrupt Downings fishermen while they are enjoying a jug of poteen. The Belfast News-Letter, Friday, February 13, 1885 Full marks to whoever returned the sword and the revolver.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Joefuz
@johnspooner Near suicidal insanity, rushing an armed policeman!
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
John Spooner
@joefuz I understand that's one of the effects of excessive alcohol consumption.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
O Mac
@gnmcauley @nlireland This zoomable CDB-46 photograph shows the same drifters in same positions so we can assume taken the same day. There is a crane and building materials at head of pier so there's your 1910 extension being built. The Steam drifters were registered in Banff Scotland. ( BF) You are right. they are simply "Bollards".
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Joefuz
@johnspooner Excessive poteen consumption!
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
John Spooner
I thought those baskets looked familiar. There's a very similar one in the cottage where I spent last week. It's in SW Scotland, and most of the flotsam on the beaches there comes from across the water - modern plastic fishboxes have the port on them - so I suspect this basket may have come from an Irish fishing boat. It's now used for storing firewood. Basket
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@johnspooner Love "great interest was manifested in the trial by the people of the locality"! I bet there was. Were you in Belfast too, or Scotland only?
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@91549360@N03 Circa 1910 then! Excellent, thank you - you did a 1910 version of swirling 360°, or at least 180° in Streetview with the other photo.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
John Spooner
@nlireland Scotland only. I got off the London-Belfast bus just before it reached Stranraer.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@johnspooner Ha! Back in our good books - thought you'd been to Belfast and was *raging* that you wouldn't take a trip down to visit us while you were at it... :)
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
The Salty Ol' Sea Dog reminds me of Rodin's 'The Thinker', except he's leaning on the wrong elbow, bearded, not made of bronze, and has clothes on.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
I agree with @91549360@N03, if you zoom in on the this shot you can see the women sitting on rocks at the far end of the pier. They are in the foreground of the shot Beaney links above. It's the same day, and the extension is in progress, so, 1910. Another angle on the construction work.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
If you compare that "another angle" shot to this streetview, you can see the extension, which is a rectangular block, the seawall is different from what you see in 1910. From that evidence, I'd say the extension work is only starting in the CDB pictures.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@91549360@N03 @gnmcauley If ye have two minutes (wild underestimation, but might as well push my luck) could ye round up any others you think were taken at the same time (from Similar Items on the right of the catalogue records and I'll change the dates straight away on our catalogue, please?? I'm in the bowels of the catalogue at the moment, so it'd be great to strike while the dating iron was hot... Alternatively, just tell me to take a long walk off a short, un-extensioned pier!
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
O Mac
@nlireland These were all taken at same time...CDB- 44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,54,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,67,68,69,70(?),71,72,73
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@gnmcauley Hang on, are you still ok with Circa 1910 then? ("... extension work is only starting in the CDB pictures...")
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@91549360@N03 Thanks very much for gathering all of those. I'll check the images as I go along - are you happy that you're seeing enough drifter evidence etc. in the ones "at sea" that they were all taken at the same time (leaving aside the CDB numbers?? Much easier to be secure about the land ones, I think.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
O Mac
@nlireland I think you could safely say the "at sea" shots can be included. They are definitely taken at Downings. These smaller boats, called Nobbys, are seen moored off the pier in wide shot( CDB 61) and seen again under sail in CDB-63. There is another wide shot where there are fewer Nobbys evident and probably taken after they'd gone out fishing. The drifter BF1410 with Zulus can been seen in both an "at sea" shot and a Downings shot.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
O Mac
@nlireland The herring season was May,June,July and as the pier extension has only begun I would think it more likely the photograph was taken in Summer 1909. www.historyshelf.org/secf/silver/coull.php
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
John Spooner
In an article entitled 'Irish Tourist Development' in The Times (London) August 21, 1906, is the following description:
Downings Bay, which is situated within a few hundred yards of the hotel*, is now a hive of industry through the development of the herring industry. Two hundred sailing boats and 12 trawlers were at work there during the spring season, and a like number are expected during the autumn. The pier has been extended under the Marine Works Act; but the quantity of boats that now come there must make a further extension essential.
*The Rosapenna Hotel. From 1939 to 1964 it advertised in the London Times, and throughout that period its telephone number was Downings 4, although by 1964 they boasted '5 lines'. In 1970 and 1971 the Beach Hotel placed a handful of adverts. Its number was Downings 5. On July 1 1904 The same paper reported on a visit of Lord Dudley to Donegal, during which he visited the industrial school at Killybegs, managed by Rev. John Boyle.
Mr Boyle gave his Excellency an interesting account of the work, and mentioned that most of the boats used in the important fishing in Downings Bay were turned out from the school boatyard.

Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
O Mac
@johnspooner That puts a spanner in the 1909/10 works? or ---a red herring?
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
TEXASJOHN
The men in the fore ground look like they came from Central Casting!
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@johnspooner @91549360@N03 @gnmcauley If you gentlemen (and anyone else who cares to weigh in) wouldn't mind sorting out this dating issue for one, one would be most grateful! (One doesn't want to change eleventy hundred catalogue records, and then find that one has to do them all again tomorrow...)
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Swordscookie
Brilliant shot Carol. I love the two auld geezers sitting on the bollard chewing the cud! The one on the far side has a hat with the rim folded sou'wester style though it doesn't look waterproof.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
O Mac
@nlireland There were two pier extensions!!! From Commons questions 23/3/1910 "Mr. BIRRELL: I am informed by the Board of Works that there have been two works of extension at this place—the first begun in 1905 and completed in 1906; the second begun in 1908 and now nearly complete. Additional works of protection are also being carried out, which will not be completed before the commencement of the May fishing, but it is hoped to have the wharf side of the pier free for the use of the Fleet at that time." Hard to know which it is because we don't know the length of the original pier nor the length of each extension. Comparing lengths (CDB-61) the pier today is considerably longer. @65876449@N04/6032281540
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
@91549360@N03 Well now... Torn between thanking you, and shaking fist at you (in an affectionate way of course)! What about the steam drifters themselves? Are the numbers on funnels, etc. any use?
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
From Hansard (original is impossibly formatted for cut and paste): Harbours and Light Railways (Government Grants). Downies Bay. 1908–9 (Actual Expenditure.) £2,739 10s 7d 1909–10 (as per Estimate) £1,170
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
So that looks like several Imperial assloads of construction in 1909 to me.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
No help with dating, but interesting: Donegal Fishermen. HC Deb 06 August 1913 vol 56 cc1486-7W 1486W § Mr. ESSLEMONT asked what is the nature and the aid given by the Congested Districts Board to the Donegal fishermen at Downing's Bay; and if this aid includes assistance in the sale and marketing of fish? § Mr. BIRRELL The Congested Districts Board assist fishermen at Downings and other fishing centres in their administrative district by supplying boats and gear on the loan and share systems. The Board's officers at Downings sell by public auction all fish landed at that port from their share boats, and a deduction of 2½ per cent. is made 1487W from the earnings to be divided among the crews for this service. Crews who have purchased their boats, either by loan or by the operation of the share system, are free to avail of this opportunity of disposing of their catches on the same terms.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
Donegal Harbour Accommodation. HC Deb 14 March 1907 vol 171 cc199-200 199 MARQUESS OF HAMILTON (Londonderry) To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether, in view of the want of harbour accommodation in Downings Bay, county Donegal, where on 5th December, 1906, thirteen fishing boats were driven from their 200 anchorage and wrecked, His Majesty's Government contemplate constructing a shelter pier; and, if so, whether they propose to begin the work before next winter. § (Answered by Mr. Birrell.) A sum of £4,500 has already been expended under the Marine Works Act upon the extension of the existing pier at Downings Bay. My predecessor considered the question of constructing a harbour of refuge at this place, but was advised that the probable expenditure would be so great as to render the work practically prohibitive. Further inquiries are being made as to whether some such work could not be undertaken at a reasonable cost.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
So there was some work already done by 1907, and more ongoing in 1909.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
Here in 1904 the £4500 of work mentioned in 1907 is at estimate stage.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
Aha! Downings Pier, County Donegal. HC Deb 23 March 1910 vol 15 cc1136-7W 1136W § Mr. HUGH LAW asked the Chief Secretary whether the attention of the Board of Works has been called to the delay in completing the extension of the pier at Downings, county Donegal; whether he is aware that more than five years have already been spent upon this work, and that much inconvenience and loss has been caused to fishermen, fish-buyers, and others; and whether he can take steps to have the works expedited, so that the pier 1137W may be completed before the commencement of the May fishing season? § Mr. BIRRELL: I am informed by the Board of Works that there have been two works of extension at this place—the first begun in 1905 and completed in 1906; the second begun in 1908 and now nearly complete. Additional works of protection are also being carried out, which will not be completed before the commencement of the May fishing, but it is hoped to have the wharf side of the pier free for the use of the Fleet at that time.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
All this to say: I cannot pin down the date very well!
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
O Mac
@gnmcauley . been there...see my last post above.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Robinson_Luzo
Interesting photo, looks like the work of the CDB's other photographer, J.D. Cassidy of Ardara. If so then the photo is post 1907.
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
Niall McAuley
@91549360@N03 Yes, and you were much briefer, too :)
Posted: 27.08.2013  
 
O Mac
@nlireland Re; Boat No's. Of four clearly identifiable from all the Downings Pier photographs I can only find records on three of them. BF 1410-----unknown BF 1466 'Pursuit' built 1904 BF 1090 ' Hearty ' built 1903 BF 34 'Snowdrop' built 1905.(name on lifebuoy CDB69) Not much help but might suggest an earlier date than 1910. Using bollards as reference points, below is where the pier ended at time of above photograph. My gut feeling is that we are looking at building work on the first extension in 1905/06 as pier would have been ridiculously short otherwise. Or repairs to pier in 1907 . There has been no further extensions to Downings pier since 1910.- Tho' Niall Blayey did ask the Dail for one in 1956. @91549360@N03/9616072172/
Posted: 28.08.2013  
 
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
The Fishermen on the Pier Limerick The extension of Downing's stone pier Is proving a puzzle - which year? Says the Salty Old Sea Dog Who sits on a quay log, "What a lot of old bollards, I fear!"

Posted: 29.08.2013  
 
O Mac
@beachcomberaustralia He might be right. :)
Posted: 29.08.2013  
 
Robinson_Luzo
@nlireland Robert Welch's "Excursion Diary" states his main visit to Killybegs to photograph after his first CDB commission in 1903 was in September 1907.
Posted: 28.11.2013  
 
aircorv1
Hi Marina, I very sorry but I was thinking the star at the bottom of the photo meant ,YOU Like the photo. I Love all your work. My computer finally came to life an told me I was clicking the wrong icon . You do FANTASTIC work , DAN.B
Posted: 24.12.2014  
 
hammockman61
the guy with the beard and cap looks like he came right out of Central Casting Hollywood
Posted: 18.01.2015  
 
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
I have just added this photo to our 50,000+ Views Album. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/sets/72157651136879037]
Posted: 27.11.2016